Israel will in die NATO/Wie wahrscheinlich ist der NATO-Beitritt Israels ?

[leuchtender Phönix]

Falls man mit dem Abschreckungsargument kommen sollte, dann muß man
fragen, wer hat schon Angst vor den Europäern ?
Außerdem könnte Israel zum Spaltpilz der NATO werden, ihren Zusammenhalt nachhaltig schwächen
und so den Feinden der USA sogar eine Möglichkeit bieten ,deren Einfluss zu mindern ,indem sie gerade diesen Bündnisfall provozieren und die Europäer
mit negativen Konsequenzen ihrer Bündnispolitik konfrontieren.

Halte ich für sehr unwarscheinlich.

Als ob der NATO die ständige Streiterei zwischen Griechenland und Türkei nicht reichen würde.

[Rocky]

(1) Wie gesagt, es kommt aufs Umfeld an. An meiner Uni gab's wilde Debatten, während in der Yellow-Press nach altem Muster deutsche "Fliegerasse" gefeiert wurden.


Das mit der UN war aber weitgehend bekannt, zumindest gab es da genügend mediale Aufmerksamkeit und die Feinheiten der US-Verfassung interessieren die Leute hier wohl auch nicht so wirklich.
Und so weit ich weiß, sind die Präsidenten allesamt immer davon ausgegangen, daß die War Powers Resolution nicht verfassungsgemäß ist und daher auch nicht beachtet werden muß. Genau das hatte Clinton bekräftigt, als er nach 60 Tagen den Kongress nicht über 30 Tage Verlängerung des Einsatzes unterrichtete.

(1) Unis sind Unis, und sind nicht die Bevoelkerung.

(2) So genau ist das nicht. Reagan hat wohl immer gesagt, er sei nicht daran gebunden. Er hat sie aber nicht verletzt.

Keiner der Praesdidenten ist vor den US Supreme Court gegangen. Also die Verfassungswidrigkeit war wohl immer eine Redewendung , aber kein Praesident seit 1973 war sich sicher genug um vor den US Supreme Court zu gehen. Bush hat noch nicht einmal die Grace Period beansprucht fuer bewaffneten Konflikt. . Er ist VOR jeder Afghanistan und Iraq Handlung zum Kongress gegangen, und er hat den War Power Act auch nie verbal angezweifelt.

Clinton haette nach 61 Tagen vor den Kongress gehen muessen. Der Kongress hat gespannt drauf gewartet, um ihm das Geld abzuschneiden. Aber am 61. Tag hat der Wesley Clark "baldigen Sieg" gemeldet, und am 67. Tag hat die Aktion kein Geld mehr gekostet. Offiziell werden, so viel ich weiss, 78 Tage als Kriegszeit angegeben.

Clinton's Krieg war enorm unpopulaer unter der US Bevoelkerung. Der Kongress haette unter keinen Umstaenden eine Kriegs-Zustimmung gegeben.

Der Kosovo (ich nenne ihn den Bill/Madeleine/Rudi/Joschka Privat) Krieg war allgemein unter der deutschen Bevoelkerung unterstuetzt, so weit ich feststellen konnte.

Ich war damals in Deutschland bei der Beerdigung meines sieben Jahre aelteren Bruders. Der hatte sein ganzes Leben in Karlsruhe verbracht, und er hatte deshalb eine Riesenbeerdigung, die, wie es halt ueblich ist, wenigstens in der traditionellen Karlsruher Umgebung, in einem riesigen Leichenschmaus geendet hat. Da war ein ganzer Zoo von Leuten zusammen, und bei mir, von Amerika extra wegen der Beerdigung kommend, so innerhalb eines Tages, wollte jeder seine Weisheiten anbringen. Das war fuer mich ein sehr guter Durchschnitt der "Volksmeinung".

Diese Leute hatten keine Ahnung, dass der Krieg unter der amerikanischen Bevoelkerung enorm unpopulaer war, und dass das ganze ein Clinton/Albright Alleingang war, ohne jede auch nur verbale Unterstuetzung vom Kongress. Sie haben, wie das Deutsche allgemein tun, diese Tatsache schlicht bestritten, und haben versucht dann mir besserwissend zu erzaehlen, was die Amerikaner ueber den Krieg denken, und wie die Deutschen hineingezogen worden seien.

Eben wie das auch auch hier im Forum ist, und wie ich das immer wieder feststelle bei Deutschen allgemein, das Besserwissen ueber Themen, von denen sie nicht die geringste Ahnung, oder schlimmer, eine voellig falsche Vorstellung haben.

Es war Zufall, dass ich damals in Karlsruhe war. Aber den Gesamteindruck habe ich nicht vergessen, und da ich eben nicht in Deutschland wohne, war auch kein Druck zur Revision meiner Eindruecke vorhanden.

Mein Bruder ist genau an dem Tag gestorben, an dem auch die Columbine Schiesserei etwa 50 Meilen noerdlich von meinem Haus war, und ich bin am selben Nachmittag von Colorado Springs ueber Dallas/Fort Worth nach Frankfurt geflogen. Da habe ich auch eine Menge darueber gehoert, wie das "natuerlich" war mit Columbine.

Wollte damit nur sagen, dass ich rein durch diese Zufaelle die weitaus interessanteste Person an dem Tag war, und ich alle, alle Weisheiten und mehr von allen gehoert habe.

Rocky

[Biskra]

(1) Unis sind Unis, und sind nicht die Bevoelkerung.

An meiner Uni gibts immerhin 45.000 Studenten . Und was die Kontroverse um den Krieg angeht, da gab es öffentlich auch durchaus eine größere Debatte, insbesondere nach diesem Bericht:

[Links nur für registrierte Nutzer]

Auch sonst gab es durchaus einflussreiche Kommentatoren (Augstein z.B.) die gegen den Krieg waren.

(2) So genau ist das nicht. Reagan hat wohl immer gesagt, er sei nicht daran gebunden. Er hat sie aber nicht verletzt.

Ja, Clinton war der erste, der das Procedere nicht eingehalten hatte. Ich denke, er wollte es drauf ankommen lassen. Die Klagen einiger Abgeordneter dagegen sind übrigens allesamt bis zum Supreme Court abgewiesen worden.

Bush hat noch nicht einmal die Grace Period beansprucht fuer bewaffneten Konflikt. . Er ist VOR jeder Afghanistan und Iraq Handlung zum Kongress gegangen, und er hat den War Power Act auch nie verbal angezweifelt.

Weiß ich jetzt nicht genau, inwiefern Bush das anzweifelt oder nicht, Fakt ist, daß auch Bush Maßnahmen durch die War Powers Resolution ergriffen hat, so z.B. im Irak (auf Grundlage der UN-Resolutionen) bis zum Oktober 2002, wo ihn der Kongress ausdrücklich bevollmächtigt hat. Ferner ist es Fakt, daß Cheney die Resolution abschaffen will. Ferner ist es Fakt, daß auch Bush nur die Formulierung "consistent with" benutzt, wenn er dem Kongress berichtet.


------------------------------
P.S: Hier die Reporte Bushs

(87) Bosnia. On January 25, 2001, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution,"that about 4,400 combat-equipped U.S. Armed Forces continued to be deployed in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and other regional states as part of the NATO-led Stabilization Force (SFOR).Most were based at Tuzla in Bosnia. About 650 others were based in Hungary, Croatia, and Italy, providing logistical and other support.

(88) East Timor. On March 2, 2001, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that the U. S. armed forces were continuing to support the United Nations peacekeeping effort in East Timor aimed at providing security and maintaining law and order in East Timor, coordinating delivery of humanitarian assistance, and helping establish the basis for self-government in East Timor. The U.S. currently has three military observers attached to the United Nations Transitional Administration in East Timor (UNTAET). The United States also has a separate military presence, the U.S. Support Group East Timor (USGET), of approximately 12 U.S. personnel, including a security detachment, which "facilitates and coordinates" U.S. military activities in East Timor.

(89) Yugoslavia/Kosovo. On May 18, 2001, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that the United States was continuing to provide approximately 6,000 U.S. military personnel in support of peacekeeping efforts in Kosovo as part of the NATO-led international security force in Kosovo (KFOR). An additional 500 U.S. military personnel are deployed as the National Support Element in Macedonia, with an occasional presence in Greece and Albania. U.S. forces in Kosovo are assigned to a sector centered around Gnjilane in the eastern portion. President Bush noted that the mission for these U.S. military forces is maintaining a safe and secure environment through conducting security patrols in urban areas and in the countryside through their sector.

(90) Bosnia. On July 24, 2001, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," about 3,800 combat-equipped U.S. Armed Forces continued to be deployed in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and other regional states as part of the NATO-led Stabilization Force (SFOR). Most were based at Tuzla in Bosnia. About 500 others were based in Hungary, Croatia, and Italy, providing logistical and other support.

(91) East Timor. On August 31, 2001, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that the U. S. armed forces were continuing to support the United Nations peacekeeping effort in East Timor aimed at providing security and maintaining law and order in East Timor, coordinating delivery of humanitarian assistance, and helping establish the basis for self-government in East Timor. The U.S. currently has three military observers attached to the United Nations Transitional Administration in East Timor (UNTAET). The United States also has a separate military presence, the U.S. Support Group East Timor (USGET), of approximately 20 U.S. personnel, including a security detachment, which "facilitates and coordinates" U.S. military activities in East Timor, as well as a rotational presence of U.S. forces through temporary deployments to East Timor. The President stated that U.S. forces would continue a presence through December 2001, while options for a U.S. presence in 2002 are being reviewed, with the President's objective being redeployment of USGET personnel, as circumstances permit.

(92) Anti-terrorist operations. On September 24, 2001, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," and "Senate Joint Resolution 23" that in response to terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon he had ordered the "deployment of various combat-equipped and combat support forces to a number of foreign nations in the Central and Pacific Command areas of operations." The President noted in efforts to "prevent and deter terrorism" he might find it necessary to order additional forces into these and other areas of the world...." He stated that he could not now predict "the scope and duration of these deployments," nor the "actions necessary to counter the terrorist threat to the United States."

(93) Afghanistan. On October 9, 2001, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," and "Senate Joint Resolution 23" that on October 7, 2001, U.S. Armed Forces "began combat action in Afghanistan against Al Qaida terrorists and their Taliban supporters." The President stated that he had directed this military action in response to the September 11, 2001 attacks on U.S. "territory, our citizens, and our way of life, and to the continuing threat of terrorist acts against the United States and our friends and allies." This military action was "part of our campaign against terrorism" and was "designed to disrupt the use of Afghanistan as a terrorist base of operations."

(94) Yugoslavia/Kosovo. On November 19, 2001, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that the United States was continuing to provide approximately 5,500 U.S. military personnel in support of peacekeeping efforts in Kosovo as part of the NATO-led international security force in Kosovo (KFOR). An additional 500 U.S. military personnel are deployed as the National Support Element in Macedonia, with an occasional presence in Greece and Albania. U.S. forces in Kosovo are assigned to a sector centered around Gnjilane in the eastern portion. President Bush noted that the mission for these U.S. military forces is maintaining a safe and secure environment through conducting security patrols in urban areas and in the countryside through their sector.

(95) Bosnia. On January 21, 2002, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that about 3,100 combat-equipped U.S. Armed Forces continued to be deployed in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and other regional states as part of the NATO-led Stabilization Force (SFOR).Most were based at Tuzla in Bosnia. About 500 others were based in Hungary, Croatia, and Italy, providing logistical and other support.

(96) East Timor. On February 28, 2002, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that U. S. armed forces were continuing to support the United Nations peacekeeping effort in East Timor aimed at providing security and maintaining law and order in East Timor, coordinating delivery of humanitarian assistance, and helping establish the basis for self-government in East Timor. The U.S. currently has three military observers attached to the United Nations Transitional Administration in East Timor (UNTAET). The United States also has a separate military presence, the U.S. Support Group East Timor (USGET), comprised of approximately 10 U.S. personnel, including a security detachment, which "facilitates and coordinates" U.S. military activities in East Timor, as well as a rotational presence of U.S. forces through temporary deployments to East Timor. The President stated that U.S. forces would continue a presence through 2002. The President noted his objective was to gradually reduce the "rotational presence operations," and to redeploy USGET personnel, as circumstances permitted.

(97) Anti-terrorist operations. On March 20, 2002, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution,"on U.S. efforts in the "global war on Terrorism." He noted that the "heart of the al-Qaeda training capability" had been "seriously degraded," and that the remainder of the Taliban and the al-Qaeda fighters were being "actively pursued and engaged by the U.S., coalition and Afghan forces." The United States was also conducting "maritime interception operations...to locate and detain suspected al-Qaeda or Taliban leadership fleeing Afghanistan by sea." At the Philippine Government's invitation, the President had ordered deployed "combat-equipped and combat support forces to train with, advise, and assist" the Philippines' Armed Forces in enhancing their "existing counterterrorist capabilities." The strength of U.S. military forces working with the Philippines was projected to be 600 personnel. The President noted that he was "assessing options" for assisting other nations, including Georgia and Yemen, in enhancing their "counterterrorism capabilities, including training and equipping their armed forces." He stated that U.S. combat-equipped and combat support forces would be necessary for these efforts, if undertaken.

(98) Yugoslavia/Kosovo. On May 17, 2002, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that the U.S. military was continuing to support peacekeeping efforts of the NATO-led international security force in Kosovo (KFOR). He noted that the current U.S. contribution was about 5,100 military personnel, with an additional 468 personnel in Macedonia; and an occasional presence in Albania and Greece.

(99) Bosnia. On July 22, 2002, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that the U.S. military was continuing to support peacekeeping efforts of the NATO-led Stabilization Force (SFOR) in Bosnia and Herzegovina and other regional states. He noted that the current U.S. contribution was "approximately 2,400 personnel." Most U.S. forces in Bosnia and Herzegovina are assigned to the Multinational Division, North headquartered in Tuzla. An additional 60 U.S. military personnel are deployed to Hungary and Croatia to provide logistical and other support.

(100) Anti-terrorist operations. On September 20, 2002, President Bush reported to Congress "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that U.S. "combat-equipped and combat support forces" have been deployed to the Philippines since January 2002 to train with, assist and advise the Philippines' Armed Forces in enhancing their "counterterrorist capabilities." He added that U.S. forces were conducting maritime interception operations in the Central and European Command areas to combat movement, arming, or financing of "international terrorists." He also noted that U.S. combat personnel had been deployed to Georgia and Yemen to help enhance the "counterterrorist capabilities" of their armed forces.

(101) Cote d'Ivoire. On September 26, 2002, President Bush reported to Congress "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that in response to a rebellion in Cote d'Ivoire that he had on September 25, 2002 sent U.S. military personnel into Cote d'Ivoire to assist in the evacuation of American citizens and third country nationals from the city of Bouake; and otherwise assist in other evacuations as necessary.

(102) Yugoslavia/Kosovo. On November 15, 2002, the President reported to Congress "consistent with the War Powers Resolution" that the U.S. was continuing to deploy combat equipped military personnel as part of the NATO-led international security force in Kosovo (KFOR). Currently the U.S. has approximately 4,350 U.S. military personnel in Kosovo, with an additional 266 military personnel in Macedonia. The U.S. also has an occasional presence in Albania and Greece, associated with the KFOR mission.

(103) Bosnia. On January 21, 2003, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that about 1,800 U.S. Armed Forces personnel continued to be deployed in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and other regional states as part of the NATO-led Stabilization Force (SFOR). Most were based at Tuzla in Bosnia. About 80 others were based in Hungary and Croatia, providing logistical and other support.

(104) Anti-terrorist operations. On March 20, 2003, President Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," as well as P.L. 107-40, and "pursuant to" his authority as Commander-in-Chief, that he had continued a number of U.S. military operations globally in the war against terrorism. These military operations included ongoing U.S. actions against al-Qaeda fighters in Afghanistan; collaborative anti-terror operations with forces of Pakistan in the Pakistan/Afghanistan border area; "maritime interception operations on the high seas" in areas of responsibility of the Central and European Commands to prevent terrorist movement and other activities; and military support for the armed forces of Georgia and Yemen in counter-terrorism operations.

(105) War against Iraq. On March 21, 2003, President Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," as well as P.L. 102-1 and P.L. 107-243, and "pursuant to" his authority as Commander-in-Chief, that he had "directed U.S. Armed Forces, operating with other coalition forces, to commence operations on March 19, 2003, against Iraq." He further stated that it was not possible to know at present the duration of active combat operations or the scope necessary to accomplish the goals of the operation -- "to disarm Iraq in pursuit of peace, stability, and security both in the Gulf region and in the United States."

(106) Yugoslavia/Kosovo. On May 14, 2003, President Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that combat-equipped U.S. military personnel continued to be deployed as part of the NATO-led international security force in Kosovo (KFOR). He noted that about 2,250 U.S. military personnel were deployed in Kosovo, and additional military personnel operated, on occasion, from Macedonia, Albania, and Greece in support of KFOR operations.

(107) Liberia. On June 9, 2003, President Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that on June 8 he had sent about 35 combat-equipped U.S. military personnel into Monrovia, Liberia, to augment U.S. Embassy security forces, to aid in the possible evacuation of U.S. citizens if necessary. The President also noted that he had sent about 34 combat-equipped U.S. military personnel to help secure the U.S. embassy in Nouakchott, Mauritania, and to assist in evacuation of American citizens if required. They were expected to arrive at the U.S. embassy by June 10, 2003. Back-up and support personnel were sent to Dakar, Senegal, to aid in any necessary evacuation from either Liberia or Mauritania.

(108) Bosnia. On July 22, 2003, President Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that the United States continued to provide about 1,800 combat-equipped military personnel in Bosnia and Herzegovina in support of NATO's Stabilization Force (SFOR) and its peacekeeping efforts in this country.

(109) Liberia. On August 13, 2003, President Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that in response to conditions in Liberia, on August 11, 2003, he had authorized about 4,350 U.S. combat-equipped military personnel to enter Liberian territorial waters in support of U.N. and West African States efforts to restore order and provide humanitarian assistance in Liberia.

(110) Anti-terrorist operations. On September 19, 2003, President Bush reported to Congress "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that U.S. "combat-equipped and combat support forces" continue to be deployed at a number of locations around the world as part of U.S. anti-terrorism efforts. American forces support anti-terrorism efforts in the Philippines, and maritime interception operations continue on the high seas in the Central, European and Pacific Command areas of responsibility, to "prevent the movement, arming, or financing of international terrorists." He also noted that "U.S. combat equipped and support forces" had been deployed to Georgia and Djibouti to help in enhancing their "counterterrorist capabilities."

(111) Yugoslavia/Kosovo. On November 14, 2003, the President reported to Congress "consistent with the War Powers Resolution" that the United States was continuing to deploy combat equipped military personnel as part of the NATO-led international security force in Kosovo (KFOR). Currently the United States has approximately 2,100 U.S. military personnel in Kosovo, with additional American military personnel operating out of Macedonia, Albania, and Greece, in support of KFOR operations.

[Links nur für registrierte Nutzer]

[DerDemokrat]

welche sollten das sein? Seine Kriege hat Israel bisher allein gewonnen!

klar, weil Israel bisher auch nicht in der NATO ist ... wenn es erstmal in der NATO ist, ist jede kriegerische Handlung ein Bündnisfall.

[DerDemokrat]

Unsinn, natürlich muß die NATO zunächst den Verteidigungsfall ausrufen. Und das ist bisher genau 1x geschehen.

einmal??? Aha ...

also mit Jugoslawien und Afghanistan komme ich alleine schon auf mindestens 2x an denen Soldaten der Bundeswehr beteiligt sind. Von den "NATO-Fällen" ohne oder nur logistischer Bw-Unterstützung rede ich gar nicht erst.

Achja ... ich vergaß:
Wir schippern ja schon vor Israel und Libanon herum, um Israel vor Angriffen zu schützen.

[Rocky]

An meiner Uni gibts immerhin 45.000 Studenten . Und was die Kontroverse um den Krieg angeht, da gab es öffentlich auch durchaus eine größere Debatte, insbesondere nach diesem Bericht:

[Links nur für registrierte Nutzer]

Auch sonst gab es durchaus einflussreiche Kommentatoren (Augstein z.B.) die gegen den Krieg waren.



Ja, Clinton war der erste, der das Procedere nicht eingehalten hatte. Ich denke, er wollte es drauf ankommen lassen. Die Klagen einiger Abgeordneter dagegen sind übrigens allesamt bis zum Supreme Court abgewiesen worden.



Weiß ich jetzt nicht genau, inwiefern Bush das anzweifelt oder nicht, Fakt ist, daß auch Bush Maßnahmen durch die War Powers Resolution ergriffen hat, so z.B. im Irak (auf Grundlage der UN-Resolutionen) bis zum Oktober 2002, wo ihn der Kongress ausdrücklich bevollmächtigt hat. Ferner ist es Fakt, daß Cheney die Resolution abschaffen will. Ferner ist es Fakt, daß auch Bush nur die Formulierung "consistent with" benutzt, wenn er dem Kongress berichtet.


------------------------------
P.S: Hier die Reporte Bushs

(87) Bosnia. On January 25, 2001, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution,"that about 4,400 combat-equipped U.S. Armed Forces continued to be deployed in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and other regional states as part of the NATO-led Stabilization Force (SFOR).Most were based at Tuzla in Bosnia. About 650 others were based in Hungary, Croatia, and Italy, providing logistical and other support.

(88) East Timor. On March 2, 2001, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that the U. S. armed forces were continuing to support the United Nations peacekeeping effort in East Timor aimed at providing security and maintaining law and order in East Timor, coordinating delivery of humanitarian assistance, and helping establish the basis for self-government in East Timor. The U.S. currently has three military observers attached to the United Nations Transitional Administration in East Timor (UNTAET). The United States also has a separate military presence, the U.S. Support Group East Timor (USGET), of approximately 12 U.S. personnel, including a security detachment, which "facilitates and coordinates" U.S. military activities in East Timor.

(89) Yugoslavia/Kosovo. On May 18, 2001, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that the United States was continuing to provide approximately 6,000 U.S. military personnel in support of peacekeeping efforts in Kosovo as part of the NATO-led international security force in Kosovo (KFOR). An additional 500 U.S. military personnel are deployed as the National Support Element in Macedonia, with an occasional presence in Greece and Albania. U.S. forces in Kosovo are assigned to a sector centered around Gnjilane in the eastern portion. President Bush noted that the mission for these U.S. military forces is maintaining a safe and secure environment through conducting security patrols in urban areas and in the countryside through their sector.

(90) Bosnia. On July 24, 2001, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," about 3,800 combat-equipped U.S. Armed Forces continued to be deployed in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and other regional states as part of the NATO-led Stabilization Force (SFOR). Most were based at Tuzla in Bosnia. About 500 others were based in Hungary, Croatia, and Italy, providing logistical and other support.

(91) East Timor. On August 31, 2001, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that the U. S. armed forces were continuing to support the United Nations peacekeeping effort in East Timor aimed at providing security and maintaining law and order in East Timor, coordinating delivery of humanitarian assistance, and helping establish the basis for self-government in East Timor. The U.S. currently has three military observers attached to the United Nations Transitional Administration in East Timor (UNTAET). The United States also has a separate military presence, the U.S. Support Group East Timor (USGET), of approximately 20 U.S. personnel, including a security detachment, which "facilitates and coordinates" U.S. military activities in East Timor, as well as a rotational presence of U.S. forces through temporary deployments to East Timor. The President stated that U.S. forces would continue a presence through December 2001, while options for a U.S. presence in 2002 are being reviewed, with the President's objective being redeployment of USGET personnel, as circumstances permit.

(92) Anti-terrorist operations. On September 24, 2001, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," and "Senate Joint Resolution 23" that in response to terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon he had ordered the "deployment of various combat-equipped and combat support forces to a number of foreign nations in the Central and Pacific Command areas of operations." The President noted in efforts to "prevent and deter terrorism" he might find it necessary to order additional forces into these and other areas of the world...." He stated that he could not now predict "the scope and duration of these deployments," nor the "actions necessary to counter the terrorist threat to the United States."

(93) Afghanistan. On October 9, 2001, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," and "Senate Joint Resolution 23" that on October 7, 2001, U.S. Armed Forces "began combat action in Afghanistan against Al Qaida terrorists and their Taliban supporters." The President stated that he had directed this military action in response to the September 11, 2001 attacks on U.S. "territory, our citizens, and our way of life, and to the continuing threat of terrorist acts against the United States and our friends and allies." This military action was "part of our campaign against terrorism" and was "designed to disrupt the use of Afghanistan as a terrorist base of operations."

(94) Yugoslavia/Kosovo. On November 19, 2001, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that the United States was continuing to provide approximately 5,500 U.S. military personnel in support of peacekeeping efforts in Kosovo as part of the NATO-led international security force in Kosovo (KFOR). An additional 500 U.S. military personnel are deployed as the National Support Element in Macedonia, with an occasional presence in Greece and Albania. U.S. forces in Kosovo are assigned to a sector centered around Gnjilane in the eastern portion. President Bush noted that the mission for these U.S. military forces is maintaining a safe and secure environment through conducting security patrols in urban areas and in the countryside through their sector.

(95) Bosnia. On January 21, 2002, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that about 3,100 combat-equipped U.S. Armed Forces continued to be deployed in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and other regional states as part of the NATO-led Stabilization Force (SFOR).Most were based at Tuzla in Bosnia. About 500 others were based in Hungary, Croatia, and Italy, providing logistical and other support.

(96) East Timor. On February 28, 2002, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that U. S. armed forces were continuing to support the United Nations peacekeeping effort in East Timor aimed at providing security and maintaining law and order in East Timor, coordinating delivery of humanitarian assistance, and helping establish the basis for self-government in East Timor. The U.S. currently has three military observers attached to the United Nations Transitional Administration in East Timor (UNTAET). The United States also has a separate military presence, the U.S. Support Group East Timor (USGET), comprised of approximately 10 U.S. personnel, including a security detachment, which "facilitates and coordinates" U.S. military activities in East Timor, as well as a rotational presence of U.S. forces through temporary deployments to East Timor. The President stated that U.S. forces would continue a presence through 2002. The President noted his objective was to gradually reduce the "rotational presence operations," and to redeploy USGET personnel, as circumstances permitted.

(97) Anti-terrorist operations. On March 20, 2002, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution,"on U.S. efforts in the "global war on Terrorism." He noted that the "heart of the al-Qaeda training capability" had been "seriously degraded," and that the remainder of the Taliban and the al-Qaeda fighters were being "actively pursued and engaged by the U.S., coalition and Afghan forces." The United States was also conducting "maritime interception operations...to locate and detain suspected al-Qaeda or Taliban leadership fleeing Afghanistan by sea." At the Philippine Government's invitation, the President had ordered deployed "combat-equipped and combat support forces to train with, advise, and assist" the Philippines' Armed Forces in enhancing their "existing counterterrorist capabilities." The strength of U.S. military forces working with the Philippines was projected to be 600 personnel. The President noted that he was "assessing options" for assisting other nations, including Georgia and Yemen, in enhancing their "counterterrorism capabilities, including training and equipping their armed forces." He stated that U.S. combat-equipped and combat support forces would be necessary for these efforts, if undertaken.

(98) Yugoslavia/Kosovo. On May 17, 2002, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that the U.S. military was continuing to support peacekeeping efforts of the NATO-led international security force in Kosovo (KFOR). He noted that the current U.S. contribution was about 5,100 military personnel, with an additional 468 personnel in Macedonia; and an occasional presence in Albania and Greece.

(99) Bosnia. On July 22, 2002, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that the U.S. military was continuing to support peacekeeping efforts of the NATO-led Stabilization Force (SFOR) in Bosnia and Herzegovina and other regional states. He noted that the current U.S. contribution was "approximately 2,400 personnel." Most U.S. forces in Bosnia and Herzegovina are assigned to the Multinational Division, North headquartered in Tuzla. An additional 60 U.S. military personnel are deployed to Hungary and Croatia to provide logistical and other support.

(100) Anti-terrorist operations. On September 20, 2002, President Bush reported to Congress "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that U.S. "combat-equipped and combat support forces" have been deployed to the Philippines since January 2002 to train with, assist and advise the Philippines' Armed Forces in enhancing their "counterterrorist capabilities." He added that U.S. forces were conducting maritime interception operations in the Central and European Command areas to combat movement, arming, or financing of "international terrorists." He also noted that U.S. combat personnel had been deployed to Georgia and Yemen to help enhance the "counterterrorist capabilities" of their armed forces.

(101) Cote d'Ivoire. On September 26, 2002, President Bush reported to Congress "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that in response to a rebellion in Cote d'Ivoire that he had on September 25, 2002 sent U.S. military personnel into Cote d'Ivoire to assist in the evacuation of American citizens and third country nationals from the city of Bouake; and otherwise assist in other evacuations as necessary.

(102) Yugoslavia/Kosovo. On November 15, 2002, the President reported to Congress "consistent with the War Powers Resolution" that the U.S. was continuing to deploy combat equipped military personnel as part of the NATO-led international security force in Kosovo (KFOR). Currently the U.S. has approximately 4,350 U.S. military personnel in Kosovo, with an additional 266 military personnel in Macedonia. The U.S. also has an occasional presence in Albania and Greece, associated with the KFOR mission.

(103) Bosnia. On January 21, 2003, President George W. Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that about 1,800 U.S. Armed Forces personnel continued to be deployed in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and other regional states as part of the NATO-led Stabilization Force (SFOR). Most were based at Tuzla in Bosnia. About 80 others were based in Hungary and Croatia, providing logistical and other support.

(104) Anti-terrorist operations. On March 20, 2003, President Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," as well as P.L. 107-40, and "pursuant to" his authority as Commander-in-Chief, that he had continued a number of U.S. military operations globally in the war against terrorism. These military operations included ongoing U.S. actions against al-Qaeda fighters in Afghanistan; collaborative anti-terror operations with forces of Pakistan in the Pakistan/Afghanistan border area; "maritime interception operations on the high seas" in areas of responsibility of the Central and European Commands to prevent terrorist movement and other activities; and military support for the armed forces of Georgia and Yemen in counter-terrorism operations.

(105) War against Iraq. On March 21, 2003, President Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," as well as P.L. 102-1 and P.L. 107-243, and "pursuant to" his authority as Commander-in-Chief, that he had "directed U.S. Armed Forces, operating with other coalition forces, to commence operations on March 19, 2003, against Iraq." He further stated that it was not possible to know at present the duration of active combat operations or the scope necessary to accomplish the goals of the operation -- "to disarm Iraq in pursuit of peace, stability, and security both in the Gulf region and in the United States."

(106) Yugoslavia/Kosovo. On May 14, 2003, President Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that combat-equipped U.S. military personnel continued to be deployed as part of the NATO-led international security force in Kosovo (KFOR). He noted that about 2,250 U.S. military personnel were deployed in Kosovo, and additional military personnel operated, on occasion, from Macedonia, Albania, and Greece in support of KFOR operations.

(107) Liberia. On June 9, 2003, President Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that on June 8 he had sent about 35 combat-equipped U.S. military personnel into Monrovia, Liberia, to augment U.S. Embassy security forces, to aid in the possible evacuation of U.S. citizens if necessary. The President also noted that he had sent about 34 combat-equipped U.S. military personnel to help secure the U.S. embassy in Nouakchott, Mauritania, and to assist in evacuation of American citizens if required. They were expected to arrive at the U.S. embassy by June 10, 2003. Back-up and support personnel were sent to Dakar, Senegal, to aid in any necessary evacuation from either Liberia or Mauritania.

(108) Bosnia. On July 22, 2003, President Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that the United States continued to provide about 1,800 combat-equipped military personnel in Bosnia and Herzegovina in support of NATO's Stabilization Force (SFOR) and its peacekeeping efforts in this country.

(109) Liberia. On August 13, 2003, President Bush reported to Congress, "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that in response to conditions in Liberia, on August 11, 2003, he had authorized about 4,350 U.S. combat-equipped military personnel to enter Liberian territorial waters in support of U.N. and West African States efforts to restore order and provide humanitarian assistance in Liberia.

(110) Anti-terrorist operations. On September 19, 2003, President Bush reported to Congress "consistent with the War Powers Resolution," that U.S. "combat-equipped and combat support forces" continue to be deployed at a number of locations around the world as part of U.S. anti-terrorism efforts. American forces support anti-terrorism efforts in the Philippines, and maritime interception operations continue on the high seas in the Central, European and Pacific Command areas of responsibility, to "prevent the movement, arming, or financing of international terrorists." He also noted that "U.S. combat equipped and support forces" had been deployed to Georgia and Djibouti to help in enhancing their "counterterrorist capabilities."

(111) Yugoslavia/Kosovo. On November 14, 2003, the President reported to Congress "consistent with the War Powers Resolution" that the United States was continuing to deploy combat equipped military personnel as part of the NATO-led international security force in Kosovo (KFOR). Currently the United States has approximately 2,100 U.S. military personnel in Kosovo, with additional American military personnel operating out of Macedonia, Albania, and Greece, in support of KFOR operations.

[Links nur für registrierte Nutzer]

Du haettest Dich nicht so anstrengen brauchen.

Cheney's Ziel ist, oder genauer war, die Executive Power wieder herzustellen, die der Kongress im Zusammenhang mit Vietnam und Nixon an sich gerissen hat, nach Cheney's Meinung verfassungswidrig.

Das ist ein langer und grundsaetzlicher Konflikt, der nur nebenbei mit dem War Powers Act zu tun hat, und auch nur nebenbei mit Cheney persoenlich. Er kaempft fuer die Executive Power aus grundsaetzlichen Erwaegungen, und er ist sich klar, dass er sich damit persoenlich sehr unbeliebt macht und dass acht jahre viel zu kurz sind, um die Fruechte selbst zu haben.

Ich waere beeindruckt, wenn Du was Intelligentes im Zusammenhang mit Gitmo , der FISA Kontroverse, und anderen sehr spektakulaeren Verfassungskonflikten zwischen der Executive und dem kongress gesagt haettest.

Mit Gitmo ist der US Supreme Court schon zweimal bemueht worden. Und FISA wird beim US Supreme Court irgendwann landen , allerdings ist Bush im FISA Fall kuerzlich halb eingeknickt, aus dem ich lese, dass er die Nase voll hat, und ausser Iraq den Kongress wurschteln laesst, wie er will.

Wer die State of the Union Speech liest, stellt auch fest, dass er in der bizarren Corn-Ethanol Sache eingeknickt ist, zur Bestuerzung eigentlich aller Kommentatoren, die noch kompetent denken koennen.

Rocky

[Biskra]

einmal??? Aha ...

also mit Jugoslawien und Afghanistan komme ich alleine schon auf mindestens 2x an denen Soldaten der Bundeswehr beteiligt sind. Von den "NATO-Fällen" ohne oder nur logistischer Bw-Unterstützung rede ich gar nicht erst.

Achja ... ich vergaß:
Wir schippern ja schon vor Israel und Libanon herum, um Israel vor Angriffen zu schützen.

Wer dumm ist sollte schweigen. Der Bündnisfall wurde bis dato erst einmal ausgerufen. NATO-Einsätze kann es aber auch ohne Bündnisfall geben.

[Biskra]

Du haettest Dich nicht so anstrengen brauchen.

Cheney's Ziel ist, oder genauer war, die Executive Power wieder herzustellen, die der Kongress im Zusammenhang mit Vietnam und Nixon an sich gerissen hat, nach Cheney's Meinung verfassungswidrig.

Das ist ein langer und grundsaetzlicher Konflikt, der nur nebenbei mit dem War Powers Act zu tun hat, und auch nur nebenbei mit Cheney persoenlich. Er kaempft fuer die Executive Power aus grundsaetzlichen Erwaegungen, und er ist sich klar, dass er sich damit persoenlich sehr unbeliebt macht und dass acht jahre viel zu kurz sind, um die Fruechte selbst zu haben.

Na ja, die Diskussion triftet etwas ab. Also frage ich lieber nochmal welches loophole denn Clinton verwendet hat, was vor ihm kein anderer verwendet hat? Meiner Meinung nach hat Clinton nämlich gegen die Resolution verstoßen.

[David]

Eine verbrecherische Besatzungsmacht die gegen alle UN Resolutionen verstoesst, hat nichts in der Nato verloren!

Es ist gerade mal drei Jahre her, da stellte Irak angeblich eine atomare Bedrohung für Israel dar. Was auf die damalige Hetz- und Lügenkampagne folgte, ist bekannt: Ein Volk von 26 Millionen wurde in bitteres Elend gestürzt, Hunderttausende kamen im Bombenhagel um, ein ganzes Land ist mit der radioaktiven Uranmunition der "Befreier" verseucht. Doch die ominösen Massenvernichtungswaffen, mit denen Israel angeblich bedroht wurde, konnten bis zum heutigen Tage nicht gefunden werden.

Die frechen Lügen gegen den Irak sind kaum vergessen, und schon werden sie von den gleichen Kriegshetzern nahezu wortgetreu wiederholt - diesmal gegen Iran. Vor drei Jahren konnten weder Lichterketten und Demonstrationen noch das Schreiben von Leserbriefen den völkerrechtswidrigen Krieg gegen Irak verhindern.

Es ist deshalb an der Zeit, den wahren Schurkenstaat und Kriegstreiber zu benennen:

ISRAEL hat gegen mehr als 70 UN-Resolutionen verstoßen, 24 weitere UN-Resolutionen gegen Israel kamen nur deshalb nicht zustande, weil sie durch ein Veto der USA blockiert wurden. Demgegenüber wurde Irak nach gerade mal 16 UN-Resolutionen von den US-amerikanischen "Befreiern" in die Steinzeit zurückgebombt.

ISRAEL ist dem Atomwaffensperrvertrag nie beigetreten, besitzt aber heimlich Atomwaffen und stellt eine atomare Bedrohung für die benachbarten arabischen Staaten dar. Gleichzeitig wird Iran gerade mit Krieg gedroht, weil er angeblich nach Atomwaffen strebt.

ISRAEL hält seit 1967 unrechtmäßig erworbenes Land besetzt. Die dort ansässige Bevölkerung wird gedemütigt, terrorisiert und ermordet. Palästinenser, die gegen die Besatzung ihres Landes kämpfen, werden von den gleichgeschalteten Medien zynischerweise als "Terroristen" bezeichnet, obwohl der Widerstand gegen eine fremde Besatzungsmacht laut Völkerrecht legitim ist.

ISRAELs wichtigste Wasserquelle liegt auf widerrechtlich annektiertem Gebiet, und zwar auf den zu Syrien gehörenden Golan-Höhen. Während die israelischen Besatzer Wasser im Überfluß haben, wird die einheimische Bevölkerung bei der Wasserversorgung systematisch diskriminiert.

ISRAELs Geheimdienst Mossad benutzt für Einsätze im Ausland, insbesondere in Nahost, deutsche Identitäten. Mit anderen Worten: Es ist durchaus denkbar, daß ein Mossad-Agent mit einem Duplikat eures Reisepasses im Iran unterwegs ist. Der BND hat hiervon Kenntnis und unterstützt den "befreundeten Geheimdienst" mit entsprechenden Dokumenten und Informationen.

ISRAEL ist das einzige Land der Welt, in dem Folter, Sippenhaft und außergerichtliche Exekutionen legal sind und tagtäglich angewandt werden. Heuchelnde westliche Politiker nennen dieses Land "die einzige Demokratie" im Nahen Osten.

ISRAEL schickt routinemäßig Panzer und Bulldozer in palästinensische Flüchtlingslager, um dort Häuser, Straßen und landwirtschaftliche Flächen, sprich die Lebensgrundlage der Palästinenser, zu zerstören.

ISRAEL bekam von der BRD insgesamt fünf atomwaffenfähige U-Boote geschenkt. Damit ist der atomaren Erpressung der ganzen Welt durch radikale Zionisten Tür und Tor geöffnet.

ISRAEL baut eine 650 km lange, 8 m hohe Betonmauer, die jegliche Hoffnung der Palästinenser auf einen eigenständigen Staat schwinden läßt. Siehe auch: [Links nur für registrierte Nutzer]. Deutsche Medien und Politiker schweigen sich über diese monströse Mauer aus.

ISRAEL ist ein Apartheidsregime, schlimmer als das seinerzeit international boykottierte Südafrika, so der UN-Sonderberichterstatter John Dugard. Wo bleibt der Aufschrei im Fall Israel? Es ist höchste Zeit dafür!

[DerDemokrat]

Wer dumm ist sollte schweigen. Der Bündnisfall wurde bis dato erst einmal ausgerufen. NATO-Einsätze kann es aber auch ohne Bündnisfall geben.

1. solltest Du dann nach Deinem eigenen Kriterium die Klappe halten;
2. ist es kaum ein Unterschied (weder militärisch noch moralisch), ob ein Bündnisfall ausgerufen wird oder die NATO einfach mal so zu "Übungszwecken" mitmischt. Das Leben unserer Soldaten steht so oder so auf der Kippe;
3. mit einem Eintritt Israels in die NATO steigt das Risiko des Eintritts eines "Bündnisfalles" um ein Vielfaches. Die USA sind da schon Risikofaktor genug.